Joanne Sweeney on AI - Host of AI6 Podcast

The CopDoc Podcast - Season 9 - Episode 164\

AI Advocate: Joanne Sweeney on Leadership in the Age of Artificial Intelligence

This week on The CopDoc Podcast, we're back with Joanne Sweeney from Galway, Ireland, reconnecting for our second conversation about one of the most transformative forces in modern organizations: artificial intelligence. She is the host of AI6 Podcast.  About AI in six minutes.

What started as curiosity three years ago when Sam Altman introduced ChatGPT has evolved into a mission to help government and public sector leaders understand that AI isn't a threat—it's an enabler of their best work.

Joanne didn't arrive here as a true believer. Like many of us, she was skeptical. Early versions of ChatGPT frustrated her. She walked away. But she came back. And what she discovered changed everything—for her business, her career trajectory, and now for the thousands of leaders she's training worldwide.

Why This Episode Matters Now

We recorded this conversation as 2025 comes to a close, a moment when organizations across policing, government, and the public sector are finally asking serious questions about AI adoption. But many are approaching it wrong—with fear, with uncertainty, with paralysis. Joanne's message is direct: you're out of time for skepticism. The question isn't whether to use AI. It's whether you'll lead the adoption or get left behind.

This isn't about hype. This is about the future of leadership itself.

From Survivor to Pioneer: How Joanne went from teaching communications and marketing for 20 years to becoming one of the most sought-after AI literacy trainers in the public sector. When your entire skill set gets threatened, you have three choices. She made the right one.

The Real Power of Conversational AI: Most people use AI like a search engine—ask a question, get an answer. That's a massive miss. Joanne shares how she thinks with AI, how she uses it to organize her stream of consciousness, how she trains custom assistants that become genuine thought partners. The difference? Productivity multiplies.

The Police Budget Scenario: Steve walks through a practical example every police chief faces: walking out of a meeting empty-handed after requesting resources. Instead of stewing about it, what if you dictated to your AI assistant in the parking lot? "Here's what happened. Here's the pushback. Find me similar agencies that succeeded. What are my counter-arguments for next time?" You'd have answers in minutes.

Why Policy Matters More Than Technology: Here's what surprises Joanne most: three years into the AI revolution, most organizations still don't have policies. Shadow AI is real. People are using these tools without permission, on their own devices, for work. Joanne breaks down what good AI policy actually requires—and it's simpler than most leaders think.

The Agentic Shift Is Here: ChatGPT has agentics. Claude has skills. The technology is moving from tools you command to agents that work independently on your behalf. This happened faster than anyone predicted. Organizations still learning spreadsheet-level AI use have no idea what's coming.

The Nefarious Use No One Wants to Talk About: Steve pushes hard on this. Our voices are out there on podcasts. They can be cloned. Deepfakes are evolving. How will

Contact us: copdoc.podcast@gmail.com

Website: www.copdocpodcast.com

If you'd like to arrange for facilitated training, or consulting, or talk about steps you might take to improve your leadership and help in your quest for promotion, contact Steve at stephen.morreale@gmail.com

Transcript

Steve Morreale (00:03.395)

Hey everybody, Steve Morreale here and you're listening to The CopDoc Podcast. Once again, I'm here in Boston today and we are traveling across the pond to the Emerald Isle and we're talking with Joanne Sweeney once again in Galway, I presume. Is that where you are today?

Joanne Sweeney (00:19.106)

That's where I am in the west of Ireland, beautiful Galway.

Dr. Steve Morreale (00:22.05)

Welcome, welcome.

Joanne Sweeney (00:24.45)

Great to be here again, Steve.

Dr. Steve Morreale (00:26.381)

I'm glad to have you and you know the topic today is going to be very interesting. You are getting involved, immersed, engaged, a leader, a front runner with AI in the public sector. And certainly since you've started that, you kind of dragged me along and I've been quite active myself and I want to talk about that.

I want to talk about what you're doing. wrote the AI playbook and that's doing very well. I understand. have my copy. I was looking for my copy and I don't know where the hell it is. I had it a few minutes ago, but I don't know. Maybe it's upstairs. But thank you. And you know that I wrote Leading Police with AI and that has taken off. But AI, let's talk about it. How did you become involved? And by the way, I have to say also, Joanne is an avid podcaster for sure, among other things.

the AI playbook and that's doing very well. I understand. have my copy. was looking for my copy and I don't know where the hell it is. I had it a few minutes ago, but I don't know. Maybe it's upstairs, but, but thank you. And you know that I wrote leading police with AI and that has, has taken off, but AI let's talk about it. How did you become involved? And by the way, I have to say also, Joanne is an avid podcaster for sure, among other things and runs a business and she can tell us about that in a few moments, but

runs a business and she can tell us about that in a few moments but she also runs AI6 and that is a six minute podcast generally run every day with a little bit longer towards the weekend when she has some time. I've been listening to it and I strongly suggest you do it for six minutes you will find out amazing things about AI the things you and I are learning virtually every day. Talk about that.

Dr. Steve Morreale (01:20.043)

She also runs AI6 and that is a six minute podcast generally run every day with a little bit longer towards the weekend when she has some time. I've been listening to it. I strongly suggest you do it for six minutes. You will find out amazing things about AI, the things you and I are learning virtually every day. Talk about that.

Joanne Sweeney (01:39.854)

Yeah, well, mean, stepping into AI was a real intention for me in 2025. And it's really nice to speak to you at the end of the year, because it gives us a chance to reflect on the year that was a big AI year. And so coming into 2025, I had a real intention to bring to life my AI knowledge products that I'd been working on previously. So I don't know if you remember where you were Steve when Sam Altman took to the stage in San Francisco exactly three years ago this week when he introduced ChatGPT and

That just blew my mind. And as well as blowing my mind, it nearly blew up my business, right? Cause I've been teaching communications marketing for 20 years and working in my sector and evolving as it evolved. And I went, my goodness, this is another side shift that I'm gonna have to make if I'm gonna have to remain relevant because these tools can now write your comms strategy, your social media strategy, answer all the questions.

Based on the knowledge that I've gained over two decades. And I said to myself, so Joanne, what are you going to do about it?

I've written books before and they have been helpful to me to go deep on a topic, but also to introduce myself to my market, reposition myself in the market. So writing the book was one thing I was committed to. And then the podcast was another idea that I had because I said, I need to teach people in an accessible way. How am I going to do it? And the thought of a 20, 30 minutes podcast.

Joanne Sweeney (03:25.592)

kind of said, I don't know if I'm going to convert people with that idea. So I came up with the idea of AI6. I can teach you AI in six minutes a day and take away the fear. And if you just borrow six minutes out of your day, but you know, also when you're listening to something, you can multitask. Like I love to listen to podcasts when I'm patrolling around my house. so...

Dr. Steve Morreale (03:42.413)

Yes.

Joanne Sweeney (03:47.086)

This week we are reaching the milestone of 250 episodes of AI. So and that's remarkable in just 10 months. Yeah.

Dr. Steve Morreale (03:51.951)

Well, I know, and I want to say this. So when I wrote the book, I found myself, the first chapter was from skeptic to advocate because going back to when you, first of all, in order for you to understand it, you have to use it and you have to use a trial and error. I know you did that. I've been doing that. You started to talk about agentic for the first time I heard it and I thought, what the hell is agentic? And now I know, and now I have some just like you do.

going back to when you, first of all, in order for you to understand it, you have to use it and you have to use it trial and error. I know you did that. I've been doing that. You started to talk about a agentic for the first time I heard it and I thought, what the hell is an agentic? And now I know, and now I have some just like you do. And I'm sure the people on the other, on the sidelines right now are thinking, what the hell are they talking about? But I was a skeptic because when Altman said that I had been spending money, mostly money from the federal government.

And I'm sure the people on the other on the sidelines right now are thinking, what the hell are they talking about? But I was a skeptic because when Altman said that I have been spending money, mostly money from the federal government to improve the way that I recover things, recall things, write things, kind of capture things, everything from speech to text to I can't tell you how many things I spent money on, you know, early, early.

Dr. Steve Morreale (04:36.239)

to improve the way that I recover things, recall things, write things, kind of capture things, everything from speech to text to, I can't tell you how many things I spent money on, know, early, early technology, just didn't work. It just didn't work. This began to kind of whet my appetite saying, well, maybe this does work, but Joanne, hope, I'm gonna assume you're gonna agree with me, when OpenAI started,

technology just didn't work. It just didn't work. This began to kind of whet my appetite saying, well, maybe this does work. But Joanne, hope, I'm gonna assume you're gonna agree with me. When OpenAI started and ChatGPT started, I started right away. And I was very frustrated by it because it kept saying, we can't do that. I'm only trained in 2021 and I can't go back that far and I can't go outside. And it was really frustrating. thought,

And chat GPT started, I started right away. And I was very frustrated by it because it kept saying, we can't do that. I'm only, I'm only trained in 2021 and I can't go back that far and I can't go outside. And it was really frustrating. thought, what a waste of time. actually spent money and I said, what a waste of time. And I walked away from it. I walked away from it for a little while. And then I started thinking, well, maybe I'll try it again.

What a waste of time. I actually spent money and I said, what a waste of time. And I walked away from it. I walked away from it for a little while. And then I started thinking, well, maybe I'll try it again. And I'm seeing you smile, but I'm sure you had that same experience. And then what happened was I think there were other competitors getting around, including Claude, which is one of my favorite, you've got Gemini. I we could talk perplexity, Gemini, Grok, Copilot and on and on and on. were plenty of things. Deepsea just frustrated me the other day.

And I'm seeing you smile, but I'm sure you had that same experience. then what happened was I think there were other competitors getting around, including Claude, which is one of my favorite, but you've got Gemini. I mean, we could talk perplexity, Gemini, Grok, Copilot and on and on and on. were plenty of things. Deepsea just frustrated me the other day. But the fact is that I think Claude started to push the envelope and ChatGPT absolutely caught up and surpassed it.

In-person participant 1 (05:48.912)

But the fact is that think Claude started to push the envelope and Chachi PT absolutely caught up and surpassed it. So kind of speak to that. In other words, the trial and error you went through that other people will go through if they're going to try it for themselves. Because I'm trying to speak to police leaders to say, you cannot allow this to be ignored. You have to accept it. You have to embrace it. You have to try it.

Kind of speak to that. In other words, the trial and error you went through that other people will go through if they're going to try it for themselves. Cause I'm trying to speak to police leaders to say, you cannot allow this to be ignored. You have to, you have to accept it. You have to embrace it. You have to try it and see what happens and how your productivity, your, it can be a thought leader. can be a partner. Thank you. I, I, now I have said my piece. It's your turn.

and see what happens and how your productivity, it can be a thought leader, it can be a partner. Thank you. Now I have said my piece, it's your turn. Joanne Sweeney, by the way, we're talking to from Galway and she is the big shot of public sector marketing pros. And now with this new book, AI Playbook.

Joanne Sweeney, by the way, we're talking to from Galway and she is the big shot of public sector marketing pros. And now with this new book, AI Playbook.

Joanne Sweeney (06:41.006)

You know, Steve, AI has been around for over 75 years and it's been integrated into many of the technologies that we've been using. it's exponential rise over the past short number of three years is why we're all talking about it and why it's mainstream use. And I remember those early days of ChatGPT and it used to tell me to come back tomorrow. I'm like, you want me to give you a second chance and come back tomorrow? I don't do that with anyone.

In-person participant 1 (07:09.007)

Listen to you, yeah. You got one shot, buddy. That's it, right?

Listen to you. Yeah. You got one shot, buddy. That's it. Right.

Joanne Sweeney (07:16.81)

Right, so you know, I also felt those frustrations and

But you know what? They had to release it to the market in an imperfect state. But it wasn't really that imperfect because its excellence and its intelligence had grown so much and accelerated so much in a few short years. And so I began using it proficiently for personal use. And that's a great way to start. know, give me a recipe for this. Give me an idea for maybe a holiday I can take with my teenage son where we'll both enjoy it equally.

So starting with personal use and testing at that level, it will exceed your expectations and then taking it into your workplace and into your day to day. It's like any assistant, you've got to start small and you have to brief it. And I think we were getting to a stage where we assumed that AI knew what we were thinking and the more we use it, it will know what we're thinking. But three years on, we're at a place, as you say, with greater competition in the market.

better reasoning models. The models were getting about two or three model updates a year, which is quite remarkable. And when you have, you mentioned DeepSeek, the Chinese coming like a wrecking ball in January into the market and saying, hey, we can do it better, we can do it faster, and actually we can do it cheaper. It made the big players in the United States, where they're predominantly based to sit up and think,

Now we're at the end of 2025 and I think we're having a completely different conversation. Like I see chartered accountants wanting to find out more. I see universities wanting to find out more. Policing organizations wanting to find out more. So very considered conservative, compliant, rich industries coming and saying, we're very curious, but now we want to know practice. And you said it yourself, the only way to embrace AI is to learn by.

Joanne Sweeney (09:21.072)

doing. It is not a theoretical technology, it is a practical technology and in fact it is a conversational technology. We are conversing with the bots because they understand natural language processing and so it's a two-way conversation. It's an iterative process, it's almost like brainstorming with your peers and when I was with Chartered Accountants last week I put it to them, we're going to work

on tasks today that assistance that you would have in your sector who you would pay 50 to 60,000 euro a year on salary and they're going to complete it. And they were quite skeptical, but by the end of the day, they were vibe coding apps that they could use. And you know, accountants, look at the bottom line, Steve, I had them converted, but they came in with little

to know knowledge of AI, but in a practical setting, their learning just accelerated too. So we learn by doing.

Dr. Steve Morreale (10:25.773)

Yeah, and I agree with that. have been using it. Actually, I just got something today. So when I'm working out, one of the things I do is I put on a YouTube and I don't always listen to all to the entire YouTube because notebook can convert what YouTube is saying, give me a summary, right? If that's what you want, but I'm looking for little snippets. And at one point in time, one of the people said, listen, you know, when you're on a walk, instead of listening to music, talk to it, right?

Yeah, and I agree with that. have been using it. Actually, I just got something today. So when I'm working out, one of the things I do is I put on YouTube. And I don't always listen to the entire YouTube because notebook can convert what YouTube is saying. Give me a summary, right? If that's what you want. But I'm looking for little snippets. And at one point in time, one of the people said, listen, when you're on a walk, instead of listening to music, talk to it.

Feed it. Tell them what you're thinking. You know, that's gonna scare a lot of cops for sure, but tell them what you're thinking. And so I tried it and I said, look, here's my history. This is what I wanna retire. This is what I wanna accomplish. This is what I've done so far. And I'm using one particular platform. And so it knows a lot of what I've done because I've fed it all of my work and it understands and it will challenge me. And it actually said, I'll tell you what it said. It was very upsetting to me. It said, stop looking to produce quantity.

Feed it. Tell them what you're thinking. You know, that's going to scare a lot of cops for sure, but tell them what you're thinking. And so I tried it and I said, look, here's my history. This is what I want to retire. This is what I want to accomplish. This is what I've done so far. And I'm using one particular platform. And so it knows a lot of what I've done because I've fed it all of my work and it understands and it will challenge me. And it actually said, stop. I'll tell you what it said. It was very upsetting to me. It said, stop looking to produce quantity.

and start focusing on quality. For me, I have 160 different people I've spoken to, you included. Each one brings some rich knowledge. Use that to your advantage. Let me help you pull out some of the information so that you can have a capstone book, what I've learned from 160 conversations. And I wrote back, I said, this is numbing.

In-person participant 1 (11:26.413)

and start focusing on quality. For me, I have 160 different people I've spoken to, you included. Each one brings some rich knowledge. Use that to your advantage. Let me help you pull out some of the information so that you can have a capstone book, what I've learned from 160 conversations. And I wrote back, I said, this is numbing.

because I'm in the middle of another book and another book and another book and you're, you're trying to change me. I'm sorry, but do you understand? I actually said, my wife is trying to understand when are you going to stop working? When are you going to stop pushing? When are you going to see you understand, right? What drives us somebody like you and I, and it got me to think, I mean, it was like I was talking to, to a counselor and, yet it was, it was really mind numbing at how

because I'm in the middle of another book and another book and another book and you're trying to change me. I'm sorry, but do you understand? I actually said, my wife is trying to understand when are you going to stop working? When are you going to stop pushing? When are you going to see you understand, right? What drives us somebody like you and I? And it got me to think. I mean, it was like I was talking to to a counselor and yet it was it was really mind numbing at how

I, how real it was and how accurate it was. And sometimes I'll push back and say, Hey, this is my book I'm writing. stop trying to write this piece for me. You know, I'm trying to use my voice and it will, and I'm telling you, and I know, you know, this, when you push back on AI, wants to please you. If you're saying I'm not happy, it's going to revert and it's going to come back and try to please you. Is that your experience?

how real it was and how accurate it was. And sometimes I'll push back and say, hey, this is my book I'm writing. Stop trying to write this piece for me. I'm trying to use my voice and it will, and I'm telling you, and I know you know this, when you push back on AI, it wants to please you. If you're saying I'm not happy, it's gonna revert and it's gonna come back and try to please you. Is that your experience?

Joanne Sweeney (12:48.404)

Absolutely, they're trained to please and that's why hallucinations get through because the scoring system is built on getting rewarded for answering even though if they're not correct. So yes, they are sycophantic, they are there to please. And so we need to use our own nuance and our own human intelligence. You're right to push back on that because if you've ever noticed for your viewers and for your listeners, have you ever noticed that chat GP

will never end a conversation.

it'll always offer something else to do for you. And that's when you get into the weeds and you get overwhelmed. So suddenly you've not got one book idea, you've 10 book ideas, you've got 30 courses, and then you forgot what your initial prompt was. So less is more and being proficient at prompting and briefing, just like as if you had an assistant, don't overwhelm them, give them one task at a time and try and get that task done.

to 100 % success because U plus AI is a better equation and you should get better results.

Dr. Steve Morreale (13:59.331)

Yeah, that's interesting. And one of the things I've learned along the way is to ask it to interview you. And that means what do you need? This is what I'm trying to do. This is, this is the output I'm looking for. This is who I am. This is what it is for. Tell me what questions you need answered to give me valuable out.

Yeah, that's interesting. And one of the things I've learned along the way is to ask it to interview you. And that means, what do you need? This is what I'm trying to do. This is the output I'm looking for. This is who I am. This is what it is for. Tell me what questions you need answered to give me valuable output. And it'll come back with five or six questions. And once you answer those questions, you dictate back to it, it'll say, now I'm clear. Let me go to work.

And it'll come back with five or six questions. And once you answer those questions, you dictate back to it, it'll say, now I'm clear, let me go to work. Right. And again, I'm seeing you shake your head. So these experiences I've had for somebody who's never used it or has used it. Look, to me, this is what I think. I think that AI, you know, most people are utilizing it as a super Google or a super Bing, right?

And again, I'm seeing you shake your head. So these are experiences I've had for somebody who's never used it or has used it. Look, to me, this is what I think. I think that AI, most people are utilizing it as a super Google or a super Bing, that they're really thinking that this is just going to give you, first of all, it's going to give you answers. Let me ask a question and get an answer.

that they're really thinking that this is just going to give first of all, it's going to give you answers, right? Let me ask a question and get an answer. And what I just said is what I just read from Bob T. D. Who wrote leading with questions was ask it questions, right? Let it interview you, let it let it draw you in. And I want to get to policing in a minute, but I want to I want to know your experience and your and your

In-person participant 1 (14:54.553)

And what I just said is, what I just read from Bob T.D. who wrote Leading with Questions was ask it questions, right? Let it interview you. Let it draw you in. And I want to get to policing in a minute, but I want to know your experience and your missteps, your mistakes and your successes.

your missteps, your mistakes and your successes.

Joanne Sweeney (15:20.396)

I think early doors and using AI, I had to really kind of qualify my expectation of what it could do for me.

and also going in and going out and asking it one thing and leaving. But when I learned that you could train your own assistant and have your own model that actually was a true assistant in the full sense of the world word, that's when I realized, okay, this can be efficient in terms of using it as a process and not only adding efficiency to my day. And so when ChatGPT allowed us to set up

Custom AI assistance. think then I began to get more from it and it integrated into my working day. And then the other thing that I realized is just as you said, I love conversational AI. So I'm coming to the end of the year and I'm like, Hey, 2026 is upon me. I really want to narrow down again on my product offering because I could go far and wide, but I need to.

just really reflect on what I did this year but be intentional for next year and I said let's talk about that and so I opened up this conversation because what I don't want our 25 page strategy what I want is actually a one page vision board as to where and what I want to do in the next 12 months because it's changing so fast we also need to be considered so training the assistant with your own knowledge

and then using conversational AI. They've been two game changers for me because I think we're like, Steven, that I'm a very, you know.

Joanne Sweeney (17:08.014)

When I talk, I think and I don't edit myself, it just comes out. So that rich stream of consciousness is a very powerful way to speak to the assistant. And the final thing I would say on that is invest in the tools, get the $20 per month subscription, because then I think you can use it more freely and that your information.

Dr. Steve Morreale (17:28.399)

Right. And you won't be frustrated because it shuts you down. It truncates your output.

and you won't be frustrated because it shuts you down, it truncates your output.

Joanne Sweeney (17:32.558)

And I think we'll be more honest with it and we'll use it to better effect because when we're using the free model there's a sense of this isn't really private and my information is training the model so you can turn off that setting when you've got the paid for model and I think you'll just lean into it a little bit more.

Dr. Steve Morreale (17:50.209)

Are you worried about privacy?

Are you worried about privacy?

Joanne Sweeney (17:52.556)

You know, there's a deal there that, you know, our information is private, but I think with anything in the internet and nothing is ever private. Nothing is ever private. Anything can be hacked. mean, Iberia Airlines, the Spanish airline got hacked over the weekend. They sent me an email and I'm like, I know you got hacked because I've just received 200 emails in Spanish, right? And they mentioned your brand name. So I think you just have to use it like we use email, you know?

just thinking about what we put in it. But when you pay for it and they say your information is not being used to train the model, know, take that with a pinch of salt because information is staying somewhere.

Dr. Steve Morreale (18:34.979)

Yes, it is. it's obviously because you have a memory. So I've set it for memory. And I also just turned off the privacy that I don't want it to be trained. But I have a paid one. I want to say this for those who are listening. And even my wife, who was not necessarily an advocate for AI and in many cases, like many faculty members who were ever at my school are saying, this is the death of the brain. This is the death of critical thinking. I'm the absolute opposite to say

Yes, it is. And it's obviously because you have a memory. So I've set it for memory. And I also just turned off the privacy that I don't want it to be trained. But I have a paid one. I want to say this for those who are listening. And even my wife, who was not necessarily an advocate for AI, and in many cases, like many faculty members who were at my school are saying, this is the...

This is the death of the brain. is the death of critical thinking. And I'm the absolute opposite to say that I want my students to use it, but I want my students to use it ethically and under supervision. So they understand that you're feeding the machine, not the machine feeding your mind, right? In that regard. So, but AI, as you and I have talked about before, have we been using it forever? When we use our cell phones and we're saying, give me directions to this or...

that I want my students to use it, but I want my students to use it ethically and under supervision so they understand that you're feeding the machine, not the machine feeding your mind.

Right in that regard. So, but AI, as you and I have talked about before, have we been using it forever when we set when we use our cell phones and we're saying, give me directions to this or, or what's the bet? What's the nearest McDonald's or what's the nearest gas station or what's the weather today? All of that is AI driven. We've been using AI for years and years and years. Like you said, there's no question about it. Just not in that same way. So I want to say this to those of you who are listening that have used it, and maybe have underutilized it.

In-person participant 1 (19:26.323)

What's the best, what's the nearest McDonald's or what's the nearest gas station or what's the weather today? All of that is AI driven. We've been using AI for years and years and years. Like you said, there's no question about it. Just not in that same way. So I want to say this to those of you who are listening that have used it and maybe have underutilized it. But one of the things that I suggest is that when you're walking out, I know that Joanne and I do this all the time. You're walking out of a meeting, there's thoughts on your mind and you want to purge your mind.

One of the things that I suggest is that when you're walking out, know that Joanne and I do this all the time. You're walking out of a meeting, there's thoughts on your mind and you want to purge your mind. I will open up my cell phone and even on my drive, I will just dictate to it. I will just extemporaneously talk about this is what happened. This is what was who was here. This is what I think went well. This is what I missed. This is it's these kinds of things. And you're talking, you're dictating to it, but it's not dictation as you and I knew many years ago.

I will open up my cell phone and even on my drive, I will just dictate to it. I will just extemporaneously talk about this is what happened, this is who was here, this is what I think went well, this is what I missed, it's these kinds of things. And you're talking, you're dictating to it, but it's not dictation as you and I knew many years ago. Basically, it can sort out your harried mind into something that's cogent to give you some feedback. I see you shaking your head, I have the benefit of seeing Joanne.

Basically, it can sort out your harried mind into something that's cogent to give you some feedback. I see you shaking your head. have the benefit of seeing Joanne on video. So tell me your experience with that and how it has helped you.

on video. So tell me your experience with that and how it has helped you.

Joanne Sweeney (20:29.56)

Well, know, our stream of consciousness is so rich, but equally it is so muddled and messy. And when we can't get out of our own head, we procrastinate and we feel overwhelmed. And just like you said, one of the best use cases of AI is organizing, whether it's organizing your thoughts, organizing priorities in a working day, developing a matrix. So getting a view of all of your tasks and all of your priorities on one.

table that is super like we used to you know many of us maybe had assistance to do that or that would be our admin time and maybe we'd do that at the weekend so the ability to get

Dr. Steve Morreale (21:10.997)

Or you'd have strings of pieces of paper all over the place, right? I'm in the car, there's my, where's that piece I wrote? And you understand it gets crazy, right? It's information overload from 20 years ago. Now you're saying that it's sorting it out a little easier for you.

or you'd have strings of pieces of paper all over the place, right? I'm in the car, there's my, where's that piece I wrote? You understand it gets crazy, right? It's information overload from 20 years ago. Now you're saying that it's sorting it out a little easier for you.

Joanne Sweeney (21:25.792)

Yeah, I I call them my thought bubbles. When something is in my head, I have to get it out. And it used to be with a pen and paper, then it was the notes app on my iPhone. And now it is dictating it into my AI assistant.

I feel better for it, but then I know it's going to be organized and things get actioned. Somebody said to me last week, you know, there's all of these good ideas that I see. Maybe I read a blog post, listen to a podcast, watch a YouTube video. And I have all of this great information and I have good intentions to put it into action. But now I just voice note it into AI and it curates this sort of ideas box that is a

live and well, but it's layered with your opinion and your critical thinking. And that's the point. We're not passive users of AI. We are directing the AI with our own critical thinking, our own understanding of context of a situation, how we felt that meeting went, so that emotional intelligence and anticipating what the client or the stakeholder or the citizen or the customer needs from us. So don't do AI shape.

on yourself and think that you're cutting corners, embrace it to know that it can give you greater capacity to deliver something much better because your brain is emptied, your thoughts are organized and you've had this two-way conversation with an assistant that knows you and knows your work and is getting you to think deeper about it and so it's a great brainstorming partner.

Dr. Steve Morreale (23:07.811)

Yeah, there's no question. I didn't mean to cut you off, but there's no question about that. So I want to give an example. So a police chief goes in to sit with the finance department or with with the committee and and there are or the budget committee and is looking for three cars and 10 new new personnel and they don't get it.

Yeah, there's no question. I didn't mean to catch off, but there's no question about that. So I want to give an example. So a police chief goes in to sit with the finance department or with the committee or the budget committee and is looking for three cars and 10 new personnel and they don't get it. And they don't get it and they're listening and they're frustrated as they walk out. And I'm suggesting the moment that that's fresh in your mind, walk out, start talking to it to say,

and they don't get it and they're listening and they're frustrated as they walk out and I'm suggesting the moment that that's fresh in your mind walk out start talking to it to say just came from a meeting this is what happened this is what I asked for this is what they said this was their their pushback these were the reasons you know can you help me find

just came from a meeting, this is what happened, this is what I asked for, this is what they said, this was their pushback, these were the reasons. Can you help me find a couple of agencies that have had success here and what might my counter-arguments be in the future? How can I set this up for success the next time? I'm seeing you shake your head. That's very valuable, right?

a couple of agencies that have had success this here and what will my counter-arguments be in the future? How can I set this up for success the next time? I'm seeing you shake your head. That's very valuable, right?

Joanne Sweeney (24:01.634)

Yeah, this is like a scenario based planning and objection handling is a great use of AI because we all have those tricky meetings. We all have those pictures and we all have people who already made their mind up. Let's face it, right? Because here's how we always did it and nothing is going to change and nothing that you can say. But it really helps you to develop your own critical thinking because maybe there's a piece of information that's way back in your subconscious that you've completely forgotten about.

But AI has kind of unleashed it and triggered a memory or a situation you know you can bring to the fore. Now obviously we have to be really careful to not trust everything that it says if it's going doing research for you because we've had many incidences of it pulling up fake research. So everything that you do is done with the good intention for your own outcome, but everything also that you do lies with your

accountability. So we can't blame any buts. In legislation when it comes to blame, the blame lies front and squarely with a human being. And in fact, in policies and organisations, best practice is that you name the person who signs off on AI assistant work. In the first instance, it would be us. But maybe if you have a superior, then it should be them. So

AI is a collaborator. It's an assistant and you will only realize the power of it when you start using it. And it's really about having expansive thinking with AI and that does not come until you use it. You know, we start our workshops and we say, hey, write down 10 tasks that you have to do every week. And they're usually like sending emails, writing reports, maybe reviewing some data.

And that's entry level AI use, where you're using AI tools for a new task every day. The next level then is training your custom AI assistant that becomes a part of you. And then the next level is agentic AI, where AI agents, so they're greater than assistants, can complete full workflows. So simultaneous tasks across multiple

Joanne Sweeney (26:27.194)

systems and platforms and they're goal orientated. So while your assistant and your tools are passive to you, the agents are more proactive. most of, maybe your listeners like mine are starting off just using tools, but that's the entry level. know, so much more beyond that, but we all got to start at that level.

Dr. Steve Morreale (26:44.622)

Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Steve Morreale (26:48.94)

Well, you know, I liken it to word, right? Most of us have used word and the power of word is amazing and we probably use 10 % of it because we don't understand that it can help you format and do all of those kinds of things, equations, all of those kinds of things. And so that's what I'm starting to realize that that helps. And the scholar in me, like yourself, when I'm telling it to do something, first of all, it's...

Well, you know, I liken it to word, right? Most of us have used word and the power of word is amazing and we probably use 10 % of it. Because we don't understand that it can help you format and do all of those kinds of things, equations, all of those kinds of things. And so that's what I'm starting to realize that that helps. And the scholar in me, like yourself, when I'm telling it to do something, first of all, I've been with it for about...

I've been with it for about almost a year and a half, maybe two years. And so it knows my work and it just mystifies me how it says, with your history doing this and you did this and you have the book and you have the podcast, this feeds right in. And I think I didn't put that in there. That's the memory, right? Understanding. But I will always say it actually, I actually caught it the other day. I caught it telling me that I wrote a couple of pieces for a couple of different periodicals. And I had.

almost a year and a half, maybe two years. And so it knows my work and it just mystifies me how it says, well, with your history doing this and you did this and you have the book and you have the podcast, this feeds right in. And I think I didn't put that in there. That's the memory, right? Understanding. But I will always say, I actually caught it the other day. I caught it telling me that I wrote a couple of pieces for a couple of different periodicals and I hadn't. And I wrote back and I said,

And I wrote back and I said, how dare you hallucinate and tell me that I wrote something that I didn't. How can I trust you from here on? I need verifiable sources with links that I can check to make sure that you are doing accurate work. Now get rid of the things that are not available and find things that are.

In-person participant 1 (27:46.682)

How dare you hallucinate and tell me that I wrote something that I didn't? How can I trust you from here on? I need verifiable sources with links that I can check to make sure that you are doing accurate work. Now get rid of the things that are not available and find things that are. And then I can begin to trust you again. And it apologizes, it's very funny. You know, I'm so sorry, you're absolutely right, it was wrong and I was trying to plead.

and then I can begin to trust you again. And it apologizes, it's very funny. You know, I'm so sorry, you're absolutely right. It was wrong and I was trying to please. So anyway, and it comes back with things that I can use and things that I can, because I double check it, that's important. Let's talk about policy. I have two questions. We have a whole bunch of questions. I wanna talk about policy and your view of policy and how important it is for the public sector to have a policy. But more importantly, keep that in the back of your mind for a moment, Joanne. What has surprised you?

So anyway, and it comes back with things that I can use and things that I can, because I double check it, that's important. Let's talk about policy. I have two questions. We have a whole bunch of questions. I want to talk about policy and your view of policy and how important it is for the public sector to have a policy. But more importantly, keep that in the back of your mind for a moment, Joanne. What has surprised you as you've continued to learn and grow about AI?

as you've continued to learn and grow about AI.

Joanne Sweeney (28:38.222)

So, I mean, with policy, I think you're going to get more adoption. Shadow AI is real now, and that just means people are using AI at work in the absence of a policy or any guardrails.

Dr. Steve Morreale (28:53.071)

Right, without permission, right.

without permission, right?

Joanne Sweeney (28:54.466)

without permission and maybe using it on their own devices, even if they're not, but they're using it for work. We need to bridge the gap between shadow AI and oversight of AI in the workplace. And all the policy is, is why do we use AI? How do we use it? What tools are approved? How do we protect information that is proprietary and confidential?

Dr. Steve Morreale (29:16.077)

How do we remain transparent by saying we've used it in a certain way, right?

How do we remain transparent by saying we've used it in a certain way?

Joanne Sweeney (29:21.038)

Absolutely. And so what has surprised me maybe at the end of 2025 is that people are still nascent in their journey of AI. And I start every class deliberately with going, tell me your fears, because I need to get the negativity and the perceptions out of the before we can move forward. And sometimes I put them on screen and I'm like,

Maybe some of you in the room are thinking about these barriers because we cannot approach AI with fear and we cannot approach AI with problems. know in this world with for every problem, there's at least two solutions. We can solve all of your worries around AI and they're usually solved in the framework of a policy where you're using ethical AI and you understand why you're using it. And during the test and learn phase during pilots,

people need to have space to get it wrong, to push those boundaries and to find out where the organization is comfortable with AI. And so I am still surprised that policy is missing and leaders aren't leading. I'd say right now three years in.

We need policy, need leaders to lead. And then the rest, a culture of let's get excited and let's be curious and let's just dig in. Because guess what? All we're asking are people and organizations to lean into their zone of genius and then use this technology. The interfaces of these platforms, they all look the same.

really simple to use. probably the most simplest technology that I've ever had to teach because they all look the same and they're designed that way to not be overwhelming. So I hope that 2026 brings more leadership.

Joanne Sweeney (31:20.95)

and more ambition when it comes to AI because I did not think that I would be talking about agentic AI in 2025. thought, by the end of 2026, maybe I could introduce it. I had to start introducing it because ChatGPT have AgentMote on their $20 a month subscription. And so when they're making that mainstream, you're like, okay. Which then leads me to believe,

Dr. Steve Morreale (31:42.095)

Right.

Joanne Sweeney (31:48.436)

what are they bringing in 2026? We've accelerated so much in 12 months and I just worry that our organizations aren't even getting to, you know, beginner intermediate level at this stage.

Dr. Steve Morreale (31:51.14)

Right.

Dr. Steve Morreale (32:06.442)

And I think one of the things that troubles me, and I know that a lot of police chiefs ask me like, okay, so first of all, how do I protect it? Well, if you're gonna use it internally, then you really have to have a firewall. And that means you have to have a system and you have to, right? You have to pay for an enterprise subscription and that will protect the information, because police are worried about confidentiality, right? And I do understand that. So you have to be very careful if you're using it on your own.

And I think one of the things that troubles me, and I know that lot of police chiefs ask me like, okay, so first of all, how do I protect it? Well, if you're going to use it internally, then you really have to have a firewall. And that means you have to have a system and you have to, right? You have to pay for an enterprise subscription and that will protect the information because police are worried about confidentiality, right? And I do understand that. So you have to be very careful if you're using it on your own.

to, mask, you can say I'm a police chief in a, in a, in a New England town or in, in, you know, I'm I'm a, I'm a chief, I want to say chief constable. I'm as chief superintendent up in the north of Ireland, whatever that might be. but you have to be careful. You can't put such information in. And I'm, fearful that there's going to be a lot of snake oil salesmen that are going to come out and say that they know AI.

to mask. You can say I'm a police chief in a New England town or in, I'm a chief constable, I'm a chief superintendent up in the North of Ireland, whatever that might be. But you have to be careful. You can't put such information in. And I'm fearful that there's gonna be a lot of snake oil salesmen that are gonna come out and say that they know AI.

Joanne Sweeney (33:00.62)

me

Dr. Steve Morreale (33:03.811)

Right. That they know AI and they can fix it. And these little small town, you know, small organizations are not going to necessarily be sustained. will be some bigger companies. And so when you're talking to people who, the public sector, you're out there all of the time, they are worried in the same way. Right. So how do you deal with that?

That they know AI and they can fix it. And these little small town, small organizations are not gonna necessarily be sustained. It'll be some bigger companies. And so when you're talking to people who, the public sector, you're out there all of the time, they are worried in the same way. So how do you deal with that?

Joanne Sweeney (33:25.494)

It has to be an all of organisation approach because, you know, if I'm talking to communications professionals, they're going to say, well, IT have that blocked. We can't use it. We don't have the money to pay for pro or plus. So we're, we have to use free. Our organisation just isn't talking about it. And that just speaks to of a lack of leadership right now. And then I was with a group of

chief information officers from local government last week and their complaints where well you know we've got just so much to do our data isn't digitized because we know it's it's data that fuels the intelligence of these systems and

data isn't organized. So we can't create these sophisticated systems until we organize our data. So there's all of this kind of legacy issues that seem to be coming, but at the same in the same vein, going, but AI can probably digitize all your information now quicker than ever. So now you have a solution to that problem that you think is stopping you.

Dr. Steve Morreale (34:29.401)

Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Steve Morreale (34:35.747)

Yeah. Yeah. Convert it to a PDF, feed it and let it do it because it codes itself.

Yeah, convert it to a PDF, feed it and let it do it because it codes itself.

Joanne Sweeney (34:41.056)

It codes itself. The coding capability is out of this world. Like I'm vibe coding like it's my new hobby going, gosh, can I be a unicorn with just an idea of this great app? And it's, it's just unreal. Like I know vibe code before I go into the class, depending on who the audience is. So with accountants, I vibe coded in a expenses AI app that they could use. And I said, guys,

Dr. Steve Morreale (35:08.127)

So explain for the novice, what's a vibe code?

So explain for the novice what's a vibe code.

Joanne Sweeney (35:10.444)

Yeah. So, vibe coding was one of the words of the year by the Oxford Dictionary and vibe coding means that you brief a platform that can vibe code like lovable cursor or base 44 and you say, hey, I want to create an app where I can take paper receipts. They can be digitized and they can be audited and categorized for my accountant.

and you actually watch the system code you an app in real time. On the left hand side is your prompt, on the right hand side is the canvas where you're watching it code. And then it's got a chat assistant integrated into it and I say, hey, that looks really nice, but is there any analytics that we could use? So how much was spent on capital outlays, data?

Dr. Steve Morreale (36:02.255)

So what you're saying, Joanne, is that, and I understand what you're saying, but for those who have never done it before, it is basically...

So what you're saying, Joanne, is that, and I understand what you're saying, but for those who have never done it before, it is basically...

feeding it text and asking it to code. You're not coding basically, you're giving it, you're modifying, you're changing it along the way, which is something that AI has amazed me with, that you can stop at midpoint and say, nope, that's not what I'm looking for. You're going in the wrong direction. will stop and it will go in a different direction. Exactly what you just said, right?

feeding it text and asking it to code. You're not coding, basically. You're giving it, you're modifying, you're changing it along the way, which is something that AI has amazed me with, that you can stop at midpoint and say, nope, that's not what I'm looking for. You're going in the wrong direction. will stop and it will go in a different direction. Exactly what you just said,

Joanne Sweeney (36:35.03)

Yeah, so we're vibing with the technology and we're creating in real time.

And people are making lots of money from their apps, they're putting them on the app store. that, think, showing people vibe coding in real time, that's where I think you can abridge them from fear into we have no choice but to embrace this because what we can create. And again, the other thing I'd say about vibe coding is all of us have probably worked with a web developer in our days, right? Where you say, hey, I need a new website or I'd like to do an app or I need to build a learning

management system, here's what I want. So the line of communication goes on and on and if they get it wrong, that could be a big mistake and a costly mistake. Whereas now you could create a minimal buyable product, vibe code it yourself for little to no cost and then bring your experienced developer and go here, I've got a demo here. This is what I want to create. And

Trust me, they're even using these in software developer companies because

Dr. Steve Morreale (37:41.677)

No, I know they are. know they are. I want to shift gears for a minute. And you started to talk about that in, I believe it's this week's episode, and that is the nefarious use. All right. And what troubles me and what I try to get everybody ready to do is policing is going to be responsible to try to prove where fraud has taken place, where some fake stuff has come in. All right. Fake, fake pictures, fake audio.

No, I know they are. I know they are. I want to shift gears for a minute. And you started to talk about that in, I believe it's this week's episode, and that is the nefarious use. All right. And what troubles me and what I try to get everybody ready to do is policing is going to be responsible to try to prove where fraud has taken place, where some fake stuff has come in. You know, right? Fake pictures, fake audio.

all of those kinds of things. And on the one hand, if it's not criminal, it's not their responsibility, but somebody has to figure out whether that was Joanne. I worry, just like you would worry, Joanne, that our voices on the podcast are out there. Anybody could clone the voice and anybody could use that. I don't mean to plant seeds in anybody's mind, but it could happen. And how do we disprove it? And are police ready to do that? And I don't think they are anywhere near ready.

all of those kinds of things that there's one and on the one hand, if it's not criminal, it's not their responsibility, but somebody has to figure out whether that was Joe. I worry just like you would worry, Joanne, that our voices are on the podcast are out there. Anybody could clone the voice and anybody could use that. don't mean to plant seeds in anybody's mind, but it could happen. And how do we disprove it?

And are police ready to do that? And I don't think they are anywhere near ready. So kind of speak to that for a moment. That's because that's another fear people have.

In-person participant 1 (38:38.679)

So kind of speak to that for a moment. That's because that's another fear people have.

Joanne Sweeney (38:43.992)

Well, I tell you what, I always say we need AI and more.

hands for good than hands for bad. The acceleration of cybercrime is at such a rate now. Europol released a report and said that its exponential growth is like nothing they've ever seen before and they worry about police forces capacity across Europe to deal with this. Yes, they have cybercrime units now and all police forces and money has been redirected to expand them but in actual fact I think this knowledge is going to have to be

almost like the interview or interrogation skills of police officers, anthropic that owns Claude.

paper a couple of weeks ago that I suggest people should read. And I did a podcast episode on it and it's the world's first documented agentic AI attack. So Claude is a very transparent company, very transparent. And they said in this paper, their own platform Claude was hacked and agents were trained and they undertook 80 to 90 %

of the hack attack on governments, financial institutions, utilities and businesses. And only 10 to 20 % of those major attacks involved human capability. So 80 % but 20 % human and the scale of those attacks across multiple organizations at the same time was such that they said, you know,

Joanne Sweeney (40:24.878)

this is real and this is going to grow. All the while, leaders are sitting back going, oh, I don't know about that now. Oh, I don't know about AI, I don't know. You mean you don't know? You have to get off the fence. You have to take responsibility for what, you say, crimes you will be investigating.

Dr. Steve Morreale (40:43.799)

Yes.

Yes.

Joanne Sweeney (40:44.302)

you have no idea what it's about, then you need to reconsider your career because it's here and it disrupting our world.

Dr. Steve Morreale (40:56.077)

Yeah, it's here for the good, but it's also here for the bad. And we have to be ready for that because I don't think I know that I'm even cyber crime. I mean, the reality is I'm going to say something that's not not very well liked. But the fact is that most small police departments have no idea what happens after you take a report, you know, that I I bought something online and I was duped.

Yeah, it's here for the good, but it's also here for the bad. And we have to be ready for that because I don't think I know that I'm even cybercrime. I mean, the reality is I'm going to say something that's not not very well liked. But the fact is that most small police departments have no idea what happens after you take a report, you know, that I I bought something online and I was duped and and well, OK, where did it come from China?

And and well, okay, where did it come from China? Well, do you think that this small police department is going to call the Shanghai Police Department and get any help with that? They could care less about that. So we're faking most people we're taking those police are taking what I'm about to say is inside but inside knowledge, we're taking reports for insurance companies. And that's it, we are not taking them to solve crimes, for the most part.

Well, do you think that this small police department is going to call the Shanghai Police Department and get any help with that? They could care less about that. we're faking most people. We're taking those. The police are taking what I'm about to say is inside, but inside knowledge, we're taking reports for insurance companies. And that's it. We are not taking them to solve crimes for the most part, unless they're extremely serious and they're about people.

unless they're extremely serious and they're about people, not loss of money, right?

In-person participant 1 (41:50.135)

not loss of money. Right?

Joanne Sweeney (41:53.752)

Yeah, and that unfortunately, I totally concur with you. But I think what's going to happen, I think there's going to be some sort of global shock.

or one country, there's going be some sort of shock or interception that's going to take down utilities or financial institutions and it's going to put a shutter down the spine of leaders in our government, decision makers across all of society and they're going to go, okay, now we need to act because we're being much too complacent about this. And I say it all the time, what we see in terms of mainstream AI is the tip of the iceberg.

Dr. Steve Morreale (42:25.817)

Yes.

Joanne Sweeney (42:36.333)

what the owners of these companies are actually working on and what they are developing.

we don't see and most people will not comprehend. So I would just like to say that, you know, we were having these conversations, but I really hope that leaders in government are also doing AI literacy classes and have a trying to gain AI competency because there's a lot of responsibility on their shoulders. I never like to be, you know, a fear monger.

But with the more knowledge that I get, the more fearful I get. And then I have urgent need to train more people in government and public sector so that, you know, they have the capacity to make better decisions and faster decisions. Because speed is crucial. Mike Ryan, executive director of the World Health Organization, who recently retired, good Irish man from the west of Ireland. And he said, you know, do not...

can't remember the exact quote, but he said speed matters. During the pandemic, speed and efficiency matter. And that for me is something that I think is true today.

Dr. Steve Morreale (43:43.681)

Yeah, reaction. Yep, yep,

Yeah, reaction. Yep, yep.

Dr. Steve Morreale (43:50.829)

It applies to AI. It applies to personal and organizational use, but it also applies to setting the organization up to be ready to fight the nefarious use of AI, right? The criminal use of AI, the fraudulent use of AI. That's really important. And I think that's an important element. So we're talking to Joanne Sweeney and, know, listen, we met, I'm so lucky some people have heard this, but.

It applies to AI. It applies to personal and organizational use, but it also applies to setting the organization up to be ready to fight the nefarious use of AI, right? The criminal use of AI, the fraudulent use of AI. That's really important. And I think that's an important element. So we're talking to Joanne Sweeney and, know, listen, we met, I'm so lucky some people have heard this, but.

We met because I reached out to Joanne and she was very active on LinkedIn. She wrote a book, Public Sector, what the hell was the name of it? It's over there, Public Sector Marketing, right? And then she wrote this other book. And when she came to Harvard a while ago, I was able to meet with her and that kind of spurned me to write a book that was focused on the police use of AI.

We met because I reached out to Joanne and she was very active on LinkedIn. She wrote a book, Public Sector, what the hell was the name of it? It's over there, Public Sector Marketing, right? And then she wrote this other book. And when she came to Harvard a while ago, I was able to meet with her and that kind of spurned me to write a book that was focused on the police use of AI.

Joanne Sweeney (44:29.643)

yeah.

Dr. Steve Morreale (44:47.295)

and yours is for the public use and communications use of AI. But it seems to me that, I mean, I guess it was opportunistic in one way for you, but it was out of curiosity because your model, what you're talking about now is less about communication, although that's always an underpinning, but more about AI and it has traction. You're traveling all over the world. are you surprised by that?

and yours is for the public use and communications use of AI. But it seems to me that, I mean, I guess it was opportunistic in one way for you, but it was out of curiosity because your model, what you're talking about now is less about communication, although that's always an underpinning, but more about AI and it has traction. You're traveling all over the world. are you surprised by that?

Joanne Sweeney (45:18.272)

I it kind of happened overnight if I just think about the last 12 months. So if I look at, you know, my accounts at the end of the year and where I spent my time and who hired me for what, let me tell you, Steve, that people are hiring me less and less for what I used to do all the time, which was write comms strategies, train people in social media, you know, teach people how to write great copy, create great content for the internet. Because guess what? They've got the AI tools to do it.

and I'm wondering in another 12 months will I be doing any of that work at all?

Dr. Steve Morreale (45:54.883)

Right. I mean, I think this has taken over or consumed almost both of us in some ways, because, you know, in one way, I kind of feel like I'm an advocate. And when I'm talking to groups, I'll be, think on Friday, I'll be talking to a bunch of sergeants in Rhode Island.

Right. I mean, I think this has taken over or consumed almost both of us in some ways because, you know, in one way, I kind of feel like I'm an advocate. And when I'm talking to groups and I'll be, I think on Friday, I'll be talking to a bunch of sergeants in Rhode Island from all over New England. And I'm going to encourage them to use it. And what I do is I'll sit there and say, I want you to use it. Yes, do you use it lot?

from all over New England and I'm going to encourage them to use it. And what I do is I'll sit there and say, I want you to use it. Yes, do you use it a lot? I want you to open this up, put one on and I'll put people, I'm telling you what I'll do. I'm gonna put people in four tables, excuse me, four people at a table. And I'm gonna say Gemini, Copilot, Claude, ChatGPT. Now, let's come up with something we're gonna talk about. What are you interested in?

I want you to open this up, put one on and I'll put people, I'm telling you what I'll do. I'm to put people in four tables, excuse me, four people at a table. And I'm to say Gemini, Copilot, Claude, ChatGPT. Now let's come up with something we're going to talk about. What are you interested in? What's a new policy? What's something on your mind? What did you learn from today? Whatever it is and walk away and dictate into it and then come back and share what happened.

What's a new policy? What's something on your mind? What did you learn from today? Whatever it is and walk away and dictate into it and then come back and share what happened. And then you tell me what you think it was the best output in the the the four. And there are some expletives that show up in in in cop language. If you notice, holy, I can't believe it. I mean, they're just shocked at what it will give you. But it is it is is real time to show that this can be very valuable to

In-person participant 1 (46:48.909)

And then you tell me what you think was the best output in the four. And there are some expletives that show up in cop language, if you notice. Holy, I can't believe it. I mean, they're just shocked at what it will give you. But it is real time to show that this can be very valuable to you. And I'm sure you're doing the same thing. In other words, here's some uses. Let's put it to work right now. Seeing is doing, learning by doing, as you say.

And I'm sure you're doing the same thing. other words, here's some uses. Let's put it to work right now. Seeing is doing, learning by doing, as you say. So if that is your new...

If that's, if that is your new...

I guess, point of view, you continue to grow. continue. I'll ask you this, where are you getting all of the information? know, who's feeding you? Do you have an agent out there? Not, not, I mean, I'm talking about an AI agent that says, give me material on what's going on. Right. Almost like a Google, a Google, what are we talking about? Google alert. Right. Tell me what's going on with AI and tell me what's going on with.

I guess point of view, you continue to grow. continue. I'll ask you this, where are you getting all of the information? Who's feeding you? Do you have an agent out there? I mean, I'm talking about an AI agent that says, me material on what's going on. Almost like a Google, what did we talk about? Google alert. Tell me what's going on with AI and tell me what's going on with.

Joanne Sweeney (47:46.178)

Yeah.

Dr. Steve Morreale (47:49.613)

With the misuse of AI, tell me about use cases, that kind of stuff. Where what's feeding this interest in you and feeding you with material?

with the misuse of AI, tell me about use cases, that kind of stuff. What's feeding this interest in you and feeding you with material?

Joanne Sweeney (47:59.854)

So I subscribe to a couple of newsletters, a couple of podcasts, YouTube channels, and then the algorithms, because that's how algorithm works, feed me this stuff then all the time. And what I do is I just keep a, again, I voice note in to one document and I'm going, this is a topic I need to cover, this is a topic I need to cover. So it's never arduous.

to do it, but what I do do is I'll write a long form article on a topic once a month. I have five, six minute podcasts a week. I have one long conversation a week. So if you think about that collectively, I'm embedded in it, but I'm embedded in it in a very structured way.

Dr. Steve Morreale (48:46.851)

But you've created another book from all of the material you have if you wanted to, if you fit, know how, because I do it myself. You take the transcripts of what's going on and say, let's, let's put this in, let's organize this into a, you know, the second book. You're smiling.

But you've created another book from all of the material you have if you wanted to. you've felt you know how because I do it myself. You take the transcripts of what's going on and say let's put this in. Let's organize this into a second book. You're smiling.

Joanne Sweeney (49:01.122)

I know I'm still getting over writing the first one, you know, somebody said to me on a podcast recently, your book is three months old. Is it still in date?

Dr. Steve Morreale (49:10.637)

It's outdated and so is mine. know, I know. I said to my wife, started another book for what? Because AI has moved exponentially and if I don't, then someone else is gonna do that, right?

It's outdated and so is mine. I know, I know. I said to my wife, I started another book. For what? Because AI has moved exponentially and if I don't, then someone else is gonna do that, right?

Joanne Sweeney (49:14.765)

You know, but.

Joanne Sweeney (49:23.926)

Yeah. Yeah. So I just have embedded AI knowledge into my working week. And that's really important because I can't teach it if I don't know it. And then I'm practicing it every day. I will develop a system in my own business and then I'll show my comms and marketing colleagues what I have done, learn from what I have done and get them to, to test it. So you have to create some sort of structure where it's embedded in your working day and your working week. Only you can figure that.

In-person participant 1 (49:33.945)

Yes.

In-person participant 1 (49:52.143)

Yes.

Joanne Sweeney (49:53.882)

out you know but what I don't want people to do is to get content shock which is be completely bombarded by information and then your brain just switches off and you go I can't deal with this so choose a couple of sources of truth and hopefully AI6 in your podcast will be two of those that people choose

Dr. Steve Morreale (50:14.499)

Yeah, I would strongly suggest that. Can you give me one second? I've got to step away for one moment.

Yeah, I would strongly suggest that. Can you give me one second? I've got to step away for one moment.

Dr. Steve Morreale (51:21.259)

I have returned. So before we get started again and we're going to wind down, what am I missing? Do you think that we should cover?

So before we get started again and we're going to wind down, what am I missing? Do you think that we should cover?

Joanne Sweeney (51:33.262)

And...

Dr. Steve Morreale (51:37.079)

What are you working on that we should talk to people about?

What are you working on that we should talk to people about?

Joanne Sweeney (51:41.25)

mean, the agentic stuff, the assistance, the tools we've covered, the policy we've covered, mean, foundation, you know, maybe it's, yeah, so maybe say what's your AIM vision for 2026? At what level of maturity do you want to be at? They need to set a goal.

In-person participant 1 (51:59.652)

Okay, so let's go with that. All right. So we're back with Joanne Sweeney. She's sitting in beautiful Galway, Ireland today and I'm here in Boston. You're listening to the Kop-Doc podcast. It's so neat to be able to talk with you again and I love keeping in touch with you. And I guess the question would be how do people get in touch with you, Joanne?

Okay, so let's go with that. All right. So we're back with Joanne Sweeney. She's sitting in beautiful Galway, Ireland today and I'm here in Boston, you're listening to the KopDoc podcast. It's so neat to be able to talk with you again and I love keeping in touch with you. And I guess the question would be how do people get in touch with you, Joanne?

Joanne Sweeney (52:20.258)

So if you're on LinkedIn, mean, let's connect there. Just search for Joanne Sweeney and you'll see me. Or go to my website, publicsectormarketingpros.com. That's where government and public sector should go. If you're in the private sector, if you're hosting a conference, go to digitaltraininginstitute.ie. even if you put me into maybe chat GPT, hopefully I'll come off.

Dr. Steve Morreale (52:43.903)

you will. They know it knows about you now. But also AI six, I strongly suggest AI six. mean, sometimes I'll be on a walk and I'll listen to six or seven different episodes. And it's it's it's interesting. And I would say of all of all of the things you've done, and I thank you for helping me and sharing with others, you know, there's only a few that that didn't relate to me. In other words, of all the things you do, and I'm certain that even on this podcast, there are some things people will say, I'm not interested in that. I hope this isn't one.

you will. It knows about you now. But also AI6, I strongly suggest AI6. mean, sometimes I'll be on a walk and I'll listen to six or seven different episodes. And it's interesting. And I would say of all of the things you've done, and I thank you for helping me and sharing with others, there's only a few that didn't relate to me. In other words, of all the things you do. And I'm certain that even on this podcast, there are some things people will say, I'm not interested in that. I hope this isn't one.

I have to tell you because it is so important, but on a break, we talked about one thing and that was, you know, what's ahead for you? What do you see 2626 bringing? And as you and I said, we talked about using it, having a policy, creating an assistant, using a gentics for what I realized is that chat GPT has a gentics claw doesn't what they have is skills.

I have to tell you because it is so important. But on a break, we talked about one thing and that was, you know, what's ahead for you? What do you see 26 bringing? And as you and I said, we talked about using it, having a policy, creating an assistant, using agentics for what I realized is that ChatGPT has agentics. Claw doesn't. What they have is skills.

And then I'd be able to put some skills together. have skills for virtually everything, everything. And it helped me build this skill, right? Just like when you're doing an agent agency, this is what I'm trying to do. What will it look like? What can I think about? What should I? So talk about that a little bit more and then think about what's the future hold 26 hole for Joanne and for the public sector with AI.

In-person participant 1 (53:41.444)

And then I'd be able to put some skills together. I have skills for virtually everything and it helped me build the skill, right? Just like when you're doing an agentic, you see, this is what I'm trying to do. What will it look like? What can I think about? What should I? So talk about that a little bit more and then think about what's the future hold, 26th hole for Joanne and for the public sector with AI.

Joanne Sweeney (54:04.482)

So like I am doing now and probably you, Steve, I would encourage your listeners to think about setting an AI ambition for 2026. Where do you want to be in 12 months time? What is going to be the level of your AI maturity? Are you still going to be sampling those tools or are you going to create a host of custom AI assistance that can really deliver productivity?

Or are you going to step into a Gentic AI, which the tools are making mainstream for us? If nothing else, you should have use cases and pilots for all of those levels of AI in 2026, because it's not that difficult. And honestly, you don't need a consultant to do it. You know what I You could ask AI to help you with your starting ground.

Literacy is very important but this is literacy by doing and not just complete theory. I mean I've written a book of course but within all those words are invitations to practice and to test. For me I mean I'm going to take some time over the last two weeks of the year to reflect and make an intentional plan and I think my product offering is going to be very much refined, a signature workshop.

that has impact. I'm thinking a day and a half. The diploma, which is eight modules, which is like a mirror of the book. I need to update that because it's moved so fast. And then I guess more speaking and more stages because that keeps me up to date and kind of spreading the gospel.

Dr. Steve Morreale (55:49.143)

Well, and you're learning other use cases as people are talking to you. I know I'm in the same way.

Well, and you're learning other use cases as people are talking to you. I know I'm in the same way.

Joanne Sweeney (55:54.518)

Yeah, and then I would love to, and I'm doing a little bit of it already, is helping people implement in their organization. So becoming an extension to their team and working out those use cases so they actually have a case study that they then can present to management or that they can scale. So I think that's going to be where my attention is sitting next year.

Dr. Steve Morreale (56:18.063)

That's great. of course, as you're, you know me, I'm always taking notes, talk about case studies. And one of the things you said, and I know your daughter is, is, is an accountant and taxes are coming here in the United States. I'm sure they're coming for you too. and, and I thought that is such a pain in the ass to assemble all of these documents and AI is going to be my friend this particular year. So there's a use case.

That's great. of course, as you know me, I'm always taking notes, talking about case studies. And one of the things you said, and I know your daughter is an accountant and taxes are coming here in the United States. I'm sure they're coming for you too. And I thought that is such a pain in the ass to assemble all of these documents. And AI is going to be my friend this particular year. So there's a use case.

that I will try. I did pick up a couple of ideas from you and I appreciate that. So parting words from Joanne Sweeney, you are talking to people who are in academia, generally in criminal justice education, and obviously policing from all over the world. As you know, I'm being listened to by 106 countries. I'm sure you're in the same boat. It just amazes me, 106 countries. But what's your message?

that I will try. So I did pick up a couple of ideas from you and I appreciate that. So parting words from Joanne Sweeney, you are talking to people who are in academia, generally in criminal justice education and obviously policing from all over the world. As you know, I'm being listened to by 106 countries. I'm sure you're in the same boat. It just amazes me, 106 countries. But what's your message?

as they leave here and spent 50 minutes thinking, talking about AI in the future.

In-person participant 1 (57:16.085)

as they leave here and spent 50 minutes thinking, talking about AI in the future.

Joanne Sweeney (57:25.29)

AI is not for the new cohort of graduates coming into the market. I believe AI is for those of us who have decades of experience, who have our own zones of genius and who have that lived experience that we can bring.

to the world right now. And that's your legacy, your responsibility and your legacy is to ensure that you are part of this revolution and that you put your stamp in it because you know best how your sector

can adapt because you've been there for so long. The technology is an enabler of scalability, of productivity, of new ideas. And as Hans Peter, one of our professors from Harvard said, we'll always need humans because the human brain is all about ideas. You will be bringing new ideas to how AI should be used for good. It's the human.

that's going to direct it. But unless you get off the fence and get into the driving seat, that cannot happen. So think of it as both a responsibility, but a wonderful opportunity. And you can learn very fast. It's not that tricky.

Dr. Steve Morreale (58:37.603)

Yeah, I mean, you have to lead and when people see you as a leader leaning into it, then they'll begin to first of all, they'll help you. You know what that's like. Hey boss, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? Have you thought about? No, I haven't. And so it's when you open up how it was used that we all expand and it's the human. You're absolutely right. And I want to say this AI doesn't control us unless you let it.

Yeah, I mean, you have to lead. And when people see you as a leader leaning into it, then they'll begin to, first of all, they'll help you. You know what that's like. Hey boss, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? Have you thought about, no, I haven't. And so it's when you open up how it was used that we all expand. And it's the human, you're absolutely right. And I want to say this, AI doesn't control us unless you let it. You the fact of the matter is that you're in charge, you're in command.

You know, the fact of the matter is that you're in charge, you're in command, you're in the driver's seat. You're the one who was driving user intellect and suction. thank you, Joanne. Thank you once again. It's been a pleasure. Christmas is upon us. I wish you the best for your Christmas season. And I wish you good for 2026. We'll talk again in 2026 because this isn't going away.

You're in the driver's seat. You're the one who is driving. Use your intellect in sections. So thank you. Joanne, thank you once again. It's been a pleasure. Christmas is upon us. I wish you the best for your Christmas season. And I wish you good for 2026. We'll talk again in 2026, because this isn't going away.

Joanne Sweeney (59:25.686)

No, and I'm sure the next time we have a conversation.

it will be a whole different ball game. And I think it's important that we do, but thank you so much, Steve, for meeting me in Cambridge and for being so gracious with your time and for bringing me around and giving me the tour. And also for having me in the podcast for a second time. I know that's not something that we tend to do in the podcast world. It's quite unique. So I want to acknowledge and say thank you and thanks for just being a collaborator because we learn from each other.

In-person participant 1 (59:56.592)

So thank you. Well, that's another episode of the KopDoc podcast in the can. I want you to keep yourself safe. Have a good holiday season and take care of your people. Thanks. Don't be afraid to try AI. Reach out to either Joanne or I and we'd be more than happy to chat with you. So thank you very much until the next episode.

Thank you. Well, that's another episode of the KopToc podcast in the can. I want you to keep yourself safe, have a good holiday season and take care of your people. Thanks. Don't be afraid to try AI reach out to either Joanne or I and we'd be more than happy to chat with you. So thank you very much until the next episode.